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Interview: Diablo Cody on Jennifer’s Body, Juno, and More

After a long day at the Toronto Film Festival, Diablo Cody called me up to talk about the movie and her continuing efforts to process unexpected fame.

Interview: Diablo Cody on Jennifer’s Body, Juno, and More
Photo: Fox Atomic

“I have this insane fear of hitting a pedestrian with my car,” Diablo Cody says when I ask her to divulge some of her fears, simultaneously answering with the kind of quirky aside that one would expect from her and gently deflecting my attempt to peek under the hood of her most intriguing creation to date, which is to say, herself. Those close to the 31-year-old memoirist and screenwriter, whose Marvel-esque civilian name is Brook Busey, have sometimes described an insecure, deeply vulnerable soul that bears little resemblance to the brash dynamo I’ve encountered twice now, the one who materialized out of the blogosphere two years ago complete with an appealing yet prismatic bio (is she a poor stripper made good? A canny feminist who toiled in the flesh trade for research? All of the above?) and a sixth media sense that enabled her to vacuum up more attention than the stars of her debut script, the pop-savvy teen pregnancy fairy tale Juno.

In her second produced screenplay, Jennifer’s Body, Cody’s verbal signature shows maturation beyond the quip-deep level, as the writer’s distinctly feminine anxieties over issues of body image and the constancy of female solidarity are laid bare by a succession of wounding barbs and pained outbursts she provides to her heroines, a pair of unlikely high-school BFFs whose friendship, grossly unequal at the outset, suffers further strain when one becomes an indestructible hellbeast. Kidnapped and made a virgin sacrifice to Satan by a desperate indie-rock singer who believes consorting with the devil is his last shot at becoming “rich and awesome, like that guy in Maroon 5,” Jennifer (Megan Fox) eventually reappears in the school hallways as a demonic echo of her former self, flashing blood-stained pearly whites at horrified friend Needy (Amanda Seyfried) and embracing her former label as a maneater in all new ways. This past Saturday, after a long day at the Toronto Film Festival, Diablo Cody called me up to talk about the movie and her continuing efforts to process unexpected fame.

How’s the festival going so far? Are you worn out?

I am totally fucking devastated. [laughs] I am tired. But it’s cool, I’m having a good time and I love Toronto. It’s good to be back here.

I saw Jennifer’s Body for the second time last night. Was that Lance Henriksen I spied near the end?

As a matter of fact, it was! An uncredited Lance Henriksen. I’m glad you’re down with that.

Totally. I hope you took him to dinner and discussed the finer points of Pumpkinhead 4.

I am so freakin’ pissed that I was not there that day. We were shooting the pilot for Tara at the same time, so I’d had to go back to L.A., and I missed Lance Day. I’m still incredibly bummed about that.

My reaction to the movie might be somewhat atypical, in that I actually felt rather sorry for Jennifer. I think it was the sacrifice scene that really sold me on her humanity.

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Oh yeah, I totally feel for Jennifer. I had a lot of sympathy for her. There’s that scene, and there’s also the scene where she’s kind of perched in front of the mirror and she’s just kind of smearing makeup all over her face. You see how incredibly pathetic and vulnerable she is there. The only self-worth that she has lies in her appearance, and I actually find it heartbreaking. I felt bad for both girls, to be honest. People have been asking me if I’m more like Jennifer or more like Needy, and I’m like, “I’m not like either of them, I think both of these girls are tragic!”

I’d imagine that your facility with language helped you sail through high school more or less unscathed.

Yeah, I was one of those kids who just kind of skirts along on the perimeter and has lots of different friends. Honestly, high school was kind of a positive time for me. I know most people say it was a nightmare, but I was fairly popular in high school. I didn’t mind it so much. I like people.

We’ve all met our share of Jennifer types though. I’m sure you encountered a few.

We all know Jennifer types because society creates Jennifer types. There’s something about an insecure girl that can make her become very intimidating and creepy. But I can’t say that my high school experience was some kind of never-ending catfight, that’s not true. I’m kind of a girl’s girl, I’ve always liked girls. But yeah, we’ve all met that girl who is, like, the alpha female, the cold-blooded nightmare.

Megan Fox is something beyond though. She seems like the Terminator to me.

[laughs] She is, she is! To me, she’s just like a male action hero in the way that she carries herself, and I admire her so much. She totally has balls. She’s very intimidating and very, very focused. She’s always like a snake that’s about to strike. But also extremely likeable. If you talk to the girl for five minutes, you’ll want it to turn into 20. But yeah, I am intimidated by her, for sure.

She’s also getting a reputation for being a quote machine. Are you worried she might upstage you?

Jesus, please, please upstage me! I want to be upstaged, I never wanted this. You know what? I can’t help that I got stuck promoting Juno with a bunch of quiet people. I was having to do all the work. The serious actors didn’t want to whore themselves out to the press, so I had to do it, you know? But this time I’m like, please let’s put Amanda and Megan on display. They’re beautiful girls, they’re very articulate, they’re clever and charming, and I will be over here writing, which is what I wanted to be doing in the first place.

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There are relatively few famous writers though. Why retreat? Why not assume the mantle of a public intellectual?

First of all, I’ll never be an intellectual of any stripe, but it is very cool to be a visible writer, there’s no question about that. It’s wonderful to be appreciated in a field where people don’t always get their due. A lot of writers get the shaft in Hollywood, and I’ve been incredibly lucky. At the same time, if I wanted to spend days and days talking about films with journalists—and I am not talking about you, by the way, I’m just pointing this out—I probably would have wanted to be a rock star or a movie star. Some people are just born wanting to be famous, but I never really was that. I always just wanted to write, and that’s really it, so it’s weird. I kind of became accidentally famous and it’s such a strange situation to be in.

Oh, come on. Even on Twitter you’re the big superstar.

I am not a superstar on Twitter! There are people on Twitter who have millions and millions of followers. I just have my weird little corner of Twitter where me and my people hang out.

Why do you think it is that, as a writer, you gravitated toward body horror and not something more in fashion, like suspense? Are you a Cronenberg fan?

That’s funny, I do like David Cronenberg. That’s a very, very interesting question. I’m not really sure. I don’t think I have nearly enough discipline to write something that’s suspenseful. I don’t like to wait for anything. I’d rather just have somebody pull a guy’s pants off and then eat him.

Body horror is all about the internal. Would you say your fears are more internal or external? What’s more apt to scare you, something like cancer or a madman?

[laughs] All of it! You shouldn’t even bring things like that up to someone who is OCD. Actually, most of my fears are very irrational and abstract. Like, I have this insane fear of hitting a pedestrian with my car and I’m not sure where that comes from. I think I must have done it in a past life.

I thought you might say girls are scary to you. Girl-on-girl animosity is one thread in your writing.

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Nah, I love the ladies. I flew three of my ladies up here with me. I actually like to surround myself with women. From a feminist perspective, I suppose that if society ever reverted to a Handmaiden’s Tale kind of situation, I might not enjoy that.

Did you and Karyn [Kusama, the film’s director] consciously go about trying to inject a feminist viewpoint into this movie? Or is “by girls, for girls” sort of the message itself?

Well, obviously there is some feminist stuff in there, but we tried to be as subversive as possible. We know that no one wants to be hit over the head with a frying pan of a feminist movie. But we definitely had something to say, and the fact of the matter is my stance is that I just want to give women the best lines. I think about what the best lines in the movie are, and then I give them to girls. That might not seem so radical, but it doesn’t happen that often, and that’s my M.O.

I’m not sure you succeeded in this case. Nikolai has all the best lines, for my money at least.

Ah, Nikolai! That one is actually not my fault, because Adam Brody is, like, the king of improv. A lot of that funny shit that he says comes from his own mind, and we were really glad for it, ‘cause he’s such a really funny guy. But he didn’t improve the Maroon 5 line, that was me.

The sacrifice scene that he presides over was legitimately unsettling, I thought. Especially when they sing a cappella to her, before murdering her. It’s a weird kind of heightened horror-comedy.

That scene was always a concern to us, because it really is dark. And we were never quite sure what to do with it. Initially, there were more jokes in that scene, because we kept trying to lighten the mood, and eventually a lot of the humor was taken out of it and it was like, okay, this is serious. We knew that this is the moment upon which the entire film hinges and so maybe they shouldn’t really be joking around. It was tough, man. There really were challenges in every scene. Is this funny enough? Is this scary enough? Too funny? Too scary? Neither?

Do you become precious about your words in those kinds of give and take moments? Are you very protective?

I am not a control freak at all. In fact, I really prefer to work with a strong, perfectionist director. That’s why I enjoyed working with Jason as well, because he had a strong point of view and he knew what he wanted the film to look like and sound like. And Karyn is the same way, and I could put my faith in them. I did put my faith in Karyn, and I trusted her. And I don’t think I would have ever hired somebody who I felt I’d need to supervise. Also, she just knows a hell of a lot more about filmmaking than I do! I mean, what do I know? I came out of nowhere and I’m very inexperienced. I like movies, but I am no expert. If somebody tells me that something is going to work, I will generally take their word for it.

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You’ve been vocal about your directing ambitions in the past, and I’m sure the opportunity is there. Why aren’t you jumping in with both feet?

I have been asked, multiple times. I’ve had the opportunity, and it’s funny because it’s very hard to get into directing, and here I have the opposite situation. People have said to me, “Would you direct this film?” and I was like, “Nah.” Someday, I will. But I feel like it’s a completely different discipline, and I feel like that will be a totally different phase of my life. Right now, I want to maintain a focus on something. And I like writing, I do.

Do you have a strong visual sense? Or are we in for another Kevin Smith?

[laughs] I love Kevin Smith! I think I would be lucky to have Kevin Smith’s career, first of all. I worship that guy. I do think that I have a strong visual sense. I’m just gonna go out on a limb and say it. But I’ve been lucky enough to work with directors who will actually sit and listen to me while I describe scenes, and then they’ve incorporated part of that initial vision into their final vision. Then you have a wonderful baby together.

So you and Karyn were of one mind when it came to the thematic elements? It was generally easy to get onto the same page, conceptually?

You know, I was lucky because as a producer I was able to help select a director, and of course you want to work with somebody that you have a rapport with, and where you’re not going to be constantly second-guessing each other and having to, like, translate each other. We had kind of the same sensibility, I think. We actually both have a very weird point of view. The first time I met Karyn she brought along a look book that contained all these images that had inspired her when she was reading the script, and I looked at it and it was so weird and surreal and bloody. She even had some pictures in there from Dario Argento movies, and I said, all right, I think you and I are going to have a connection and I think that we can do this together.

I liked her choice to include very brief, non-eventful flashbacks to Jennifer and Needy on the playground as toddlers. It’s a reminder that just because Jennifer isn’t deep, that doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t.

Absolutely. I think everybody has that friend that they’ve had since childhood and maybe that friendship has become toxic at this point. You just have nothing in common anymore, and there’s really no reason for you to be speaking to this person at all, and yet you can’t stop. There’s a bond there that has become almost like a sibling bond. If someone has known you since you were preverbal, then you’re going to continue feeling connected to them no matter what.

Were you and Karyn concerned that the big kiss between Needy and Jennifer might be misconstrued as a kind of lipstick-lesbian exploitation? The motivation on Needy’s part is pretty subtextual.

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It would be homophobic to call that kiss gratuitous. If you had two characters in a movie who had preexisting sexual tension, who were at an incredibly heightened moment in their relationship, and they kissed—and it was a guy and a girl—not only would people not call it gratuitous, they’d call it tame. But because it’s two women, it becomes gratuitous? It’s like, I can’t help it that they’re incredibly fucking hot. If you can’t handle it, I’m sorry. You can go jerk off afterwards. It just seems crazy to me. But you know, it’s really funny because I’ve been doing a lot of foreign press today and it’s so much fun talking to all the European journalists because they think it’s just hilarious that anyone would find that sensationalistic.

Not that sensationalism is a bad thing, necessarily. I don’t mind telling you that as an audience member I was not amused by Megan Fox doing a swimming scene with no nudity.

[laughs] There was never going to be any nudity! I wanted there to be, actually. I’m all for nudity in horror movies, I think it can be really effective. I mean, there’s no one more vulnerable than a naked person. But as for Megan and Amanda, we knew from the beginning that our leads were not going to do nudity. I think there was a lot of confusion there. The swimming scene, unfortunately, would never have been nude, which is something that I’ve actually said a million times, but nobody ever listens to me.

Did you circle the wagons when those nude photos of Megan from the swimming set surfaced online?

I also missed that one, because I was on my nice, drama-free set back in Los Angeles. But I think that was incredibly shitty, what happened to her, to be honest with you. And you know what? I honestly do understand that bloggers have to make a living, so they have to get pageviews, but I think it really sucks to take stolen, long-lens paparazzi photos and put them up on the Internet and humiliate someone. I was not pleased with the fact that those pictures surfaced like that, I can assure you. And at first it was like, is this some kind of inside job? I didn’t know and I was kind of shocked. But I know who did it.

Did you go after him?

I found out too late. It was just some asshole.

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So, how long is Universal going to keep sitting on your college misadventures script, Girly Style?

Ugh, God. Can we just get that movie made already? I actually still have to do a rewrite on it. I got some notes on it and then I got, like, completely waylaid by the television process. Tara is really all-consuming. I spend pretty much all of my time on that show, and my feature stuff has slowed up a little bit, but I definitely do need to do that one. I think that, especially in the post-Hangover world, we desperately need some kind of a crazy chick buddy movie.

I know you wrote that one and the others quite a while ago. Have you already grown out of, or moved on from that distinctive teen-speak voice that people identify you with?

I’ve definitely tried to do that in the years since I wrote Juno and Jennifer’s Body, and I do feel like my writing style has matured significantly. I can do other things. You know, sometimes when I’m on Tara I’ll just write a very straightforward emotional scene or a really clinical scene and I’ll just toss it in there and people don’t even know that was my work. But yet, at the same time, I feel like there aren’t really a ton of screenwriters out there with a distinctive style. Most of them are more like hired guns, so even if everybody out there doesn’t like my style, or if it starts to seem tired, I’m happy to have a style. The establishment has fed me well, and I’m not going to bite the hand.

But you’re still chronicling your adventures in Hollywood, right? Last time we spoke you talked about making a new memoir out of your unlikely rise.

I’m still doing it! Oh, my God. I hope I can finish it, because I feel like I have so much to say, but the only problem is that it’s constantly evolving, and so I never really know where to stop. I mean, I started writing this book, what, two years ago? And when I think about everything that’s happened since then, it’s like, holy shit. All of that was just prologue. I feel like I have so many stories, but it’s hard to organize those thoughts. Sometimes I’ll have a particularly crazy day on set and I’ll think to myself, well, that’s a chapter right there. I also think sometimes that I should try to include that whole surreal awards experience. That could be a chapter, you know? That could be a whole book.

Do you feel like you’re getting the respect you’ve earned, this time around? No more condescension from certain types?

I’ve earned nothing. I’m still just a beginner in the grand scheme of things. I’ve really not written a whole lot. And I don’t feel that I’ve proven myself, although I did have a very lucky break at the beginning. The fact of the matter is, I would prefer it if people didn’t condescend to me, but I don’t deserve any kind of special regard. I welcome kindness.

Ryan Stewart

Ryan Stewart's writing has appeared in MovieMaker, Premiere, and Cinematical.

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