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billiame
newbee
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2004 : 8:10:33 PM
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These are artists that seem to try to push the envelope artistically when it comes to video making. I haven't seen all of their videos but the ones I have seen were pretty fantastic (ie, Missy Elliot's 'I Can't Stand the Rain', TLC's 'Waterfalls').
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sal
moderator
291 Posts |
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Bryan
freshman
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 10:53:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sal
Missy Elliott's "The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly)" and Busta Rhymes' "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See" are ranked number 77 and 78 on our list. TLC's "Waterfalls" didn't make the list.
http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/features/greatestmusicvideos.asp
Do you have some bias against TLC or something? How could you leave out "Waterfalls?"
I mean, in your 3D review in which you trashed the album you said "While TLC were once innovators..."
And yet, you fail to show their innovations when you don't put them in the 100 Greatest Music Videos or 50 Vital Pop Albums when based on your statement in the 3D review, they should be there.
Most lists of best videos put TLC on their list, and many lists of The Best Pop Albums put CrazySexyCool on there. So why don't you? It sounds as though you just said that quote in your 3D review just because it's the general consensus, and yet you don't personally believe that TLC were innovators yourself. |
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sal
moderator
291 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 11:08:31 AM
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quote:
Most lists of best videos put TLC on their list, and many lists of The Best Pop Albums put CrazySexyCool on there. So why don't you?
We're not interested in rehashing other people's lists. I feel like I've explained the absence of "Waterfalls" a million times already, but here goes: I like "Waterfalls" and it was in contention but compromises were made (I'm not the only one who created the list) and the video just simply didn't make the cut. Being an "innovator" doesn't automatically earn you a spot on a list. |
Edited by - sal on 04/17/2005 11:25:06 AM |
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Bryan
freshman
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 12:42:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sal
quote:
Most lists of best videos put TLC on their list, and many lists of The Best Pop Albums put CrazySexyCool on there. So why don't you?
We're not interested in rehashing other people's lists. I feel like I've explained the absence of "Waterfalls" a million times already, but here goes: I like "Waterfalls" and it was in contention but compromises were made (I'm not the only one who created the list) and the video just simply didn't make the cut. Being an "innovator" doesn't automatically earn you a spot on a list.
First off, sorry if you have explained your reasoning. I'm new to the board and new to slant magazine. I like your website a lot and think a lot of your reviews are either spot on or a very intelligent different perspective, like the review for the unreleased Fiona Apple album.
But you seem to have no problem with putting Thriller on the list....nor do you have a problem putting several Madge vids on there either.
VH1 and MTV follow those trends too...
I don't see why you feel the need to make your list unique just because you want your list to be different...If you don't like a video as much as VH1 does or I do, that's one thing. But it seems as though you just wanted your lists to stand out just because. |
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ed
moderator
Iraq
447 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 2:16:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bryan
quote:
Originally posted by sal
quote:
Most lists of best videos put TLC on their list, and many lists of The Best Pop Albums put CrazySexyCool on there. So why don't you?
We're not interested in rehashing other people's lists. I feel like I've explained the absence of "Waterfalls" a million times already, but here goes: I like "Waterfalls" and it was in contention but compromises were made (I'm not the only one who created the list) and the video just simply didn't make the cut. Being an "innovator" doesn't automatically earn you a spot on a list.
First off, sorry if you have explained your reasoning. I'm new to the board and new to slant magazine. I like your website a lot and think a lot of your reviews are either spot on or a very intelligent different perspective, like the review for the unreleased Fiona Apple album.
But you seem to have no problem with putting Thriller on the list....nor do you have a problem putting several Madge vids on there either.
VH1 and MTV follow those trends too...
I don't see why you feel the need to make your list unique just because you want your list to be different...If you don't like a video as much as VH1 does or I do, that's one thing. But it seems as though you just wanted your lists to stand out just because.
Just because someone says they want to present a list that's an alternative doesn't mean that said alternative won't include selections that are more "populist" in nature. (No serious cinephille takes any list by AFI seriously, but any serious cinephille would be foolish to think that there aren't some good films on these lists.) Madge's videos and Michael Jackson's "Thriller" didn't make the list because they're popular; they made the list because they're good (there's deep meaning to their aesthetics). "Waterfalls" didn't make it because it's, quite frankly, its an overproduced after school special. |
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jenglisbe
junior
429 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 2:22:36 PM
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| Is "Waterfalls" really a great video? It's nice that the story follows the lyrics, but what people remember are the liquid bodies that Terminator 2 did half a decade before that. I prefer the breezy sexiness of the "Creep" video and, especially, the role reversals in "Red Light Special." |
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Bryan
freshman
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 2:34:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jenglisbe
Is "Waterfalls" really a great video? It's nice that the story follows the lyrics, but what people remember are the liquid bodies that Terminator 2 did half a decade before that. I prefer the breezy sexiness of the "Creep" video and, especially, the role reversals in "Red Light Special."
Well first off, the liquid bodies was an idea by Chilli, who got it from the 1988 movie "The Abyss," so she or anyone in TLC never claimed that the liquid bodies was their original idea.
In terms of it being their best video, well it certainly is their most recognized video. Cinematographically, it's stunning. I think the way the scenes cut from one to another is flawless and the movie lense they went with is great.
Personally, my favorite video is "Creep" but "Waterfalls" is the one that put them on the map as superstars. It's an important video for their careers...moreso than "Creep," definately.
Ed I just think that it's pompous and artsy fartsy to omit some videos just because VH1 and MTV put them on their lists too. Maybe they put them on their list becuase they honestly think their good. Besides, you don't seem to like anything remotely popular anyways.
All I'm saying is, in doing a 100 Best _____ list, pick your hundred favorites, even if 99 of them are already on someone else's list...
And furthermore, the song is partially about AIDS so why are you chastizing the video and calling it "an after school special" for it's staying faithful to the message in the song?
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Edited by - Bryan on 04/17/2005 2:42:38 PM |
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sal
moderator
291 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 8:38:27 PM
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quote:
Ed I just think that it's pompous and artsy fartsy to omit some videos just because VH1 and MTV put them on their lists too. Maybe they put them on their list becuase they honestly think their good. Besides, you don't seem to like anything remotely popular anyways.
All I'm saying is, in doing a 100 Best _____ list, pick your hundred favorites, even if 99 of them are already on someone else's list...
Neither Ed nor I have ever said that videos were excluded from our list because VH1 and MTV included them. All of the lists on our site have been compiled with one piece of criteria only: quality. Suggesting otherwise is simply absurd. |
Edited by - sal on 04/17/2005 8:38:58 PM |
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No Missy Elliot, Busta Rhymes, TLC?!
