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Interview: Ned Benson Talks The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby

Benson spoke to us about whittling Him and Her down to Them, his friendship with Jessica Chastain, and more.

Interview: Ned Benson Talks The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby
Photo: The Weinstein Company

Eleven years ago, a fresh-from-Julliard actress ran after a twentysomething director through the lobby of the Malibu Film Festival. A fan of his just-screened short, she said, “Hi, my name is Jessica, I think you are so talented and I want to work with you some day. Can I have my manager send you my reel?” The actress was Jessica Chastain, and the director Ned Benson. The fruits of their subsequent labor is the ambitious, heartrending The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby, a three-part romantic epic that traces the relationship between a young couples, Connor (James McAvoy) and Eleanor (Chastain), following the death of their young son. Her and Him premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival last year to rave reviews, while Them made its way down the Croisette as part of Cannes’s Un Certain Regard slate this past May. We spoke with Benson about his decade-long friendship with Chastain, whittling Him and Her down to Them, which order to see them in, and that time that Terrence Malick handed him the camera monitor on The Tree of Life.

To begin at the beginning, what was your inspiration for the film?

It was basic relationships and love. I think I was really interested in identity and identity within relationships and what that means. And I think I initially set out to write this love story and I’d had this moment in the park in the city, where I saw fireflies, and that became the impetus for the opening scene between the couple.

That was in Central Park, right?

Yeah, exactly. So then I’d written the first script and given that to Jessica [Chastain]. She read it and started to bring up these ideas about the character of Eleanor Rigby, and I thought they were really good, so that was the impetus for me to write the second script to see where that character went. We thought, as an idea, it would be so interesting: If you’re going to write a love story, why not show both perspectives of the relationship?

So was there always a sense of Them?

We didn’t really think about Them. We were just doing Him and Her at first.

Two full-fledged scripts?

Yeah, it was one 223-page script in two chapters, basically. So we went with that and put it together. It took forever and nobody believed that we could do it.

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It’s veering into almost a decade now, right?

Yeah, yeah.

How was pitching that around?

It was exhausting. It was a lot of the word “no.” Anytime you get a meeting, it means someone is somewhat interested, but I think when Jessica and Cassandra [Kulukundis], my producer, and I, and Jess Weixler, who plays the sister, who are all best friends—when we set out, we were all sort of struggling. Not that we’re not struggling still [laughs], but we were just a bunch of idealistic people in their twenties trying to make a movie together. As time went on, Jessica’s career started to take off, so that helped us get some traction. The concept itself was interesting to people. It was interesting enough that it wasn’t just another movie, but at the same time people were like, “You’re crazy.” And then around the time that The Help came out, and Jessica got an Academy Award nomination, that was when we really started to get traction, and that was like six months before we started shooting.

For the Her script, how much of Chastain’s input and other women’s input did you take into account?

Well, we were living together at the time while I was writing the script. I would be giving her pages and asking her for ideas. She was really helping me understand femininity in a way I definitely didn’t have experience with.

I haven’t seen Him and Her yet, only Them, and was wondering when you were shooting the scenes that I assume were overlapped in the two versions, how much of the dual perspective was involved? When you were shooting one scene, how did you shoot that from the two perspectives?

Basically for his perspective, we had one visual rhythm, color palette, production design, and costume that was based within his experience of it. And dialogue that was shifted toward her. And we’re talking about subtleties, we’re not talking about vast differences. His world was much cooler and blue and the camera rhythm was much more fluid and static and that represented who he was and the fact that he constantly needed to keep moving. Otherwise, he was going to feel something. And for her, we created a much warmer, a much more loose, handheld feel, because this is somebody who’s kind of marinating in her own introspective emotions, and I wanted to feel her a bit more. When they sort of shared a scene, I switched things up, in each of those versions. So his fluid world becomes a bit looser because she’s come into his life when he’s emotionally tremoring. And for her, who feels emotionally lost, she comes in touch with herself when he comes into her life. She feels the steadiness of him. So I was dealing with that for both and it was all in the design. And ultimately, as you get later in the film, there’s a synthesis of the color palettes. A little bit of blue in her warm world.

Who would you pinpoint as your main influences? You’ve mentioned Malick, Kieslowski, and even Nabokov in a few interviews.

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Definitely Kieslowski. [And] I was on the set of The Tree of Life writing the script for Her.

How was that experience?

It was amazing. Terry’s a great influence. Just to watch him work, and there was a day I was sitting, working, and they took over the small town. I remember Jess was shooting and Terry had his monitor and he saw me just over on the side and was like, “Ned, Ned, come here!” And I was like, “Okay.” In front of the entire crew, I walk up and Terrence Malick hands me his monitor and I followed him as he shot this whole scene with Emmanuel Lubezki and it was really special.

How was the editing process from Him and Her to Them? I gather you locked yourself in a room with an editor for a year.

I had a great experience. It was me, my editor, our assistant editor, and my producing partner. And just the four of us pretty much in a room for a long time, but it was an amazing experience because you’re dealing with this huge, vast piece that you have to find the two separate rhythms of, because it’s two separate personalities and then find the synthesis of the two and how they work together. And that was really interesting. And then you have to find this third movie born from these other two films and that’s a whole other lesson in editorial and filmmaking because you realize that just because you have all of this other stuff that may work in one context, it’s not going to work in this new context. You have to find a new rhythm. You have to find new themes, new ideas that exist within the context of that film. It’s a trip and it was an amazing learning experience.

For the viewers and audience, how would you recommend them seeing it? Them comes out first, followed closely by Him and Her. Do you see it as a sort of double feature or a trilogy?

The best way, I think, is to see Them first, because then Him and Her become an expansive experience. You have all of these new characters that have new subplots, new storylines. The movie expands that way and it’s really interesting. So I think that’s the best way to see it. To see Them and then go see the double feature because you’re going to buy one ticket for both those movies. But also, the point is for audiences to see it however they want to see it. I don’t want to tell you that there’s a right way to see it because the whole point of the project was subjectivity. And it was about creating your own subjective experience: within a relationship, but with how you view it. If you want to see Them, you can see Them. If you want to see Him and Her, you can see Him and Her. If you want to see just Her, you can see that. If you want to see them in whichever order, you can do that. I want to empower audiences to just choose how they want to see it.

How is it being back in New York City?

I’m from here. New York was kind of a character in the movie. I love being here.

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How much of you is in the film?

A lot. Within all of the characters. Within the city itself. Within the version of the city that I love to see on film. It’s sort of my love letter to New York City. It’s funny, because I was here when I started writing this whole thing and I left and I was living vicariously through the script to be in New York while I was in Los Angeles, traveling, or wherever I was. That was a really nice way to be here and then to come home, to come back and to bring it to life in this wonderful way was special too. It’s just a New York that I love and I wanted it to be a character in the film.

How was rounding up the cast?

I can’t tell you how lucky I feel. I was pinching myself when I realized this. It was so exciting to be involved with Jessica for so long and have her as a part of this project. And James McAvoy, who I love and who I wanted from the beginning. And William Hurt. And Isabelle Huppert. And Bill Hader and Viola Davis. And Ciarán Hinds and Nina Arianda. And Jess Weixler. It’s all of these fabulous actors. It was amazing. I really don’t know how it happened. This weird snowball effect where all of a sudden we had this amazing cast. For some reason, these people bet on me as a director, trusted me as a director. I’m not sure why.

Well, considering that you had two scripts on the Black List…actually, how did that shape this production?

The funny thing is that the first script, the Him version, was on the Black List by itself and I had a script prior that I tried to direct and wouldn’t come together that was there. During the process of trying to make this, I was paying my rent by being a screenwriter. So that was sort of my daily routine: trying to pitch stuff or setting up stuff or writing for hire doing adaptations and stuff like that.

How was that juxtaposition?

It was great. Like I said, when you get to wake up every day and do this for a living, you’ve sort of hit the lottery. It’s exciting especially because I love doing it. But it was good because as difficult as it was to make this movie, it wasn’t just one thing I was focusing on. I was focusing on other things, and I think that’s very important when you’re going through the process of trying to make these things. You need as many projects as you possibly can: to keep your mind focused and moving forward. Giving you a distraction from the anxiety and exhaustion of putting these things together, which as you see can take a long time.

How was that first day you arrived on set?

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It was like the greatest thing ever. All of my neuroses and anxieties just disappeared because I was so creatively overwhelmed that I didn’t have enough time to be neurotic. And it was so nice. And I just felt I was in a playground, like I was in a candy store. You spend all of this time and all of this effort to get to that moment and I just felt like I just jumped in. It was amazing. I don’t know how it worked out the way it did, but it was just one of those things were I felt more relieved than anything. Like, “Okay, I’m here. We’re doing this.” Like, let’s make it. And it was phenomenal because I had phenomenal collaborators working with me, whether it was the acting department or it was the camera department or the art department or the producers. It was just a very special collaboration.

Diana Drumm

Diana Drumm is an ssistant editor at Cineaste and is the director of marketing and communications at Quad Cinema.

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